Ep 59: AI, Authority, and the End of Clicks? The Future of SEO in 2025
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Ep 59: AI, Authority, and the End of Clicks? The Future of SEO in 2025 Podcast and Video Transcript
[Disclaimer: This transcription was written by AI using a tool called Descript, and has not been edited for content.]
Dave Dougherty: All right. Welcome to the latest episode of Enterprising Minds. You got Dave and Alex here today. Alex, we have been inundated with some SEO stuff this week. Not only do we have. All of the a IO case studies via LinkedIn and all the, thought leader style people trying to share all the tests that they've done showing that, based on Google with AI mode, there's now, impressions are going through the roof, the clicks are just disintegrating.
And how is that, why is that? The future of search. I know everybody loves to say SEO is dead 'cause it, naturally garners clicks. But people have been saying that for 25 years and it's still here. Aside from quoting Monty Python, what's your what's your take on? Not dead yet.
Alex Pokorny: Definitely not dead yet.
Adoption Curve and Market Segments
Alex Pokorny: There's a couple of things that have been bouncing around in my mind. One is there's, speaking of an adoption curve, you think about those different kind of fit, the early adopters, which is maybe about 15%, and then you got your laggards, which is about another 15%, and then you got your middle.
That's the rest of it basically. So you're always trying to get that, that middle audience to pick up your product. The early adopters isn't quite enough to make a sustainable product. The laggards can be really hard to ever change their minds to start your using your product, right? Usually
it's like support for their old product has finally died and the product has broken to a point where they can't fix it themselves, and now they are forced to buy the new one.
So fine, they'll finally buy a new one.
AI Hype and Realities
Alex Pokorny: So ai, I think it's the more we get into it, it's really easy to get into that hype cycle of all the promises of it, the fast rapid changes of it, and then trying to determine exactly where you're at today and all these announcements and where, what kind of your work is gonna look like today or tomorrow or in a month or six months.
It's really hard to keep track of that, but there's also a very large audience who doesn't care. And they are still using Google, Yahoo, internet Explorer, edge, whatever, got pre-installed on their computer and that's it. They've refused all updates. They've stuck on whatever they have on.
And their process has not changed an inch depending also in the market you're in. For instance Microsoft Explorer slash Edge over indexes with B2B government and healthcare as well as an older population. It's basically those are a couple populations who don't change their browser settings or cannot because of policy rules change their browser settings.
So those individuals are using Bain. They're not using Google. Because that's what came pre installed and that's it. They're stuck. They're gonna, and they're gonna stay on that. Doesn't matter if they're the most tech friendly person too. Doesn't matter if they're gonna stay on that. So there's different audiences basically for these different markets.
SEO Persistence and Audience Behavior
Alex Pokorny: So thinking about SEO, there's the Gibson quote of the future's already here. It's not evenly distributed.
Which is definitely true with AI because there's people who are using and doing amazing things with it, and there's people who have not changed in the last year and they're just fine too.
So both are happening at the same time. So a long story short of basically just. There is still SEO as it has been and there will remain SEO as it has been because there's an audience that is always looking for that and going towards that. As Google starts to force more AI overviews down the throat of all of those users, then things start to finally change and shift and then we start to have to modify for that.
But there's also gonna be a group that's gonna scroll right past that 'cause they don't trust it and they'll go right back to the same lengths as usual. They'll go back to that.
The, so that's part one.
Trust in Business Relationships
Alex Pokorny: Part two is I was listening to a podcast that's actually about a toy distributor. But talking about all the different manufacturers that he was working with, and they asked about the faceless manufacturer and does that work?
And Yeah, what it got down to is it does until there's a problem. The moment that a shipment is late, a payment is messed up billing details were wrong. A product arrived broken and the response in a relationship is, I'll fix it for you 'cause we have a relationship, or it's fine if your bill's gonna be 10, delayed by 10 days because we have a history with you.
Absolutely. It's we'll deal with that. That's fine. Or, I'm so sorry. Your product's broken. We'll rush in order to try to get it back to you and air airship it versus, put it on a boat.
And that's when the faceless, organization basically breaks apart is when you hit that point where you have those problems.
And so it's a moment of trust. So I think that gets a little bit into also like how SEO persists and how content online persists is basically is when you need a trusted source, when you need an expert, when you need a customer service person who can actually make a difference and make a change and fix the situation, find a solution, right?
That's when suddenly all of that kind of breaks apart and the. Basic best practices overview that you get from an AI overview or chat GPT summary. It's not good enough. It doesn't work. So there's always also these like breaking points, as you go through this of yes, it totally works here.
It totally falls apart over here and it works here, but then it falls apart for this audience. There's always like this back and forth piece. Like we're never all in one. Perfectly uniform future, or always all over the place.
Dave Dougherty: Yeah, it was, it's interesting, I've had a couple of experiences recently with family sending stuff over for birthdays and and things like that. And there was one toy that, it was clearly that faceless, nameless, Chinese toy manufacturer, and it was supposed to be a tabletop foosball set up, but it only had one goal, so we couldn't create the field because it didn't. Create a full box. And then of course, because big piece of soccer is two goals.
Yeah, exactly. You need that. You need that. And so of course there's no like callback number, there's no, whatever. And then, so I take a picture of it with Google Lens and just say, who sells this? I have nothing to go off of. Just the shipping stickers that were put on the box and that's that.
And I found Alibaba and eBay. Sure. So then it became, I went to my wife and I'm like, does anybody in your family shop on eBay? I don't know of anybody in my family that shops on eBay who would've bought this.
So it became this whole thing. And, yeah, I think there's a number of things where, like when I was presenting at St. St Thomas, the local uni local university here, the one of the questions was like what content do you bother even making now? And I said, anything that I want to be known for, right?
Because the thing that I keep finding is, okay, great, I can create all of this stuff. I can do all of these deep research things. I can do a deep research for every wackadoo idea that I have. I still don't have time to consume everything. I still don't have time to think deeply about it in order to make it useful.
So like I need to find out. What are the things that are directionally correct to pique my interest so that I can continue down the path of researching, and then once I do go find those reputable sources for larger knowledge right? Or more specialized knowledge. A big thing for me has been just learning more about investing and diversifying risks in your profile.
Trying to level up. That way. With the AI tools, it's like, all right, fine. Hey, let's try it out. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take investing advice from, ai, just like I wouldn't from some random neighbor in the neighborhood. But it was, help me understand this concept, which I knew I could then go to a site like NerdWallet or JP Morgan, or whatever other financial services place, and verify that information as being correct, right?
Or I could then go to the podcasts of these companies and again, listen to their thought leaders. Sure have a conversation around these things so that I can better understand it. And then if I really need to double check my understanding or maybe want to show off a little bit, then I'll call my own financial guy and be like, Hey, I've been reading this.
Is this correct? Yeah. And they'll say yes, no, and I've been able to do that a number of times and it's been great just to again, narrow the path from, I don't know that much to, here are the aspects that I think I might be curious about. And then. Help me understand, check my understanding, is this correct, and then I can make the decisions, right?
Is that resonating with you at all? Similar experiences or?
Google's AI and Algorithm Updates
Alex Pokorny: Yeah, it's actually, that's been one of the things that I've been oddly most concerned about Google is as they've been releasing different AI related updates and any of these updates actually come in the last year, Google used to always have this lag.
Any knew their algorithm updates, whereas an algorithm update and then there was a big pause. And see how it shakes out. And then they would do a second version of that same one, which was the Your Money or Your Life, which is the, there's a weird acronym for it. It's annoying to think of.
But those ones basically was a second set of queries that Google doesn't touch because it's health related, it's health advice or financial advice. So they make sure that basically the algorithm doesn't mess things up for. That group. So it's very protected, set. And the weird thing is with these AI updates that they've been doing, they've included those.
And that smacks to me a sign of desperation where instead of, is it that or is it
Dave Dougherty: organizational structures? Because I don't know that the search team talks to the AI team.
Alex Pokorny: Oof. That's a good question. Organic algorithm updates, you'd think it would still be under those
Dave Dougherty: same no, it'd be another feature.
'Cause you have your news team, your YouTube team, your Google algorithm team so that you can make sure the proprietary information around the algorithm doesn't get out.
Alex Pokorny: Yeah. That's potential, that's possibly a still odd to me though.
Dave Dougherty: It totally is odd, but. Okay, let me give you this information and then I want to, I wanna see what your reaction is to it. Good.
Future of Search and AI
Dave Dougherty: So one of the things that I was asked to, potentially put an opinion piece around was futurist search and future of ai.
And from what I'm seeing, and I've attended a couple of webinars and read a bunch of articles that are coming out and there's been some interesting things, interesting case studies on LinkedIn that have come out from people that are looking at, Russian hacker groups and, things that they're doing for that.
And what I've said, this will resonate with any of the SEOs and then, I'll explain it, but it seems to me that. AI results right now are pre Panda, and so what that means for anybody not totally nerdy is that was the update that Google released where it started accounting for the authority of the domain.
So no longer was Jim Bob's, roadkill Buffet, aligned with Whole Foods, aligned with, all these other things. So you needed to have. Actual authority in the domain, specifically around things like the, your money or life, like things that actually mattered. You needed to show that you were a reputable thing and that naturally changed the way that you were gonna be targeting your marketing, the tactics you would use, the way you would support the content that you would create.
So part of me thinks that, okay, we're in this Wild West thing now, right now, where we're getting, two. Three companies really establishing their dominance in the consumer AI side and the enterprise AI side, right? So they've established their position now, they're gonna have to build their moats.
And so I think one of the things that is gonna play in Google's favor, if the AI team will talk to the search team will be, Hey, how do we incorporate. The authority of the sites, because I know in my prompting when I'm doing the deep research is, hey, stick with the reputable domains. I don't want, I don't want some random dude's blog or, some random person's thing that's gonna just gimme conspiracy theories and bs.
Right? But I don't know how they actually interpret that. I haven't dug into that to be like, okay, how do they actually categorize the websites? Is it just the top. 620 blue links when they go and search the web on your behalf or what is that? So what's your reaction to that thought?
Do you think it's pre panda? Does that inclination make sense? Or how are you experiencing it?
Alex Pokorny: Yeah, they've done a lot of cleanup and a lot of big embarrassment. Aspects that have been like, I can't remember what it was, but it was like a joke, Reddit post of putting like rocks on your pizza or something like that.
And that became the advice that Google's overview gave you was like for a topping, suggestions. I mean there's, I can't remember the exact thing, but it was something on, bizarre that Right was meant to be just a joke kind of forum. School didn't clean it up or have any kind of reasoning around it, it was just, here's an available answer, I'll throw it out there. Overcooked low quality
Dave Dougherty: sausage does turn rock hard.
Alex Pokorny: Gotta find the example. It was something like that. But also Reddit, so who knows. Yeah, exactly.
SEO Tactics and Market Dynamics
Alex Pokorny: There's, yeah, so going back to that time of SEO, there was a few different things that kind of have died off, and maybe they're getting resurrected, which was speed to market and niche phrases. And it was basically, if you can be the one and only.
To post on a particular topic and you, if you can basically be the first, you were seen as an authority on the topic. Because basically it didn't have a great comparison point. So you were becoming an authority on very quickly on whatever topic it was. And if you could follow that, basically that market as quickly as possible, and basically produce a ton of copying content around it, you could basically be seen as the authority and that others have copied you.
And you are the original and others are the duplicates. There's a big problem with that actually in Asia, Baidu has a setting for it where basically it's every time your page loads, it submits it. So a lot of pages get scraped and reposted and there's a lot of spamming. And their way of handling it was basically is that you're paged.
Every time someone loves it, pings them and then brings in the copy so that basically now they can see future variations of, it might be on other websites and say, Nope, yours was the first. It literally is who pings first? Which is just, that's an intense market. That's a very different market than we're seeing, right?
Right here in the west. But the niche phrases probably still applies. The other thing that basically applies and just thinking back like what kind of content is good for AI these days? And SEO is basically is your own
Dave Dougherty: right?
Alex Pokorny: If it's a new thought, it's probably worth it. And if it's just a repetition of somebody else, you probably don't have to post it anymore.
Dave Dougherty: Although there was authority. Here's the thing. So one of the things with, if you don't have the authority, right? One of the, one of the ways that you can assume that there's authority is the amount of times the talking point is said or the information is said. So that's something that I saw.
There was a thing on TikTok and how it's having these problems of like verbatim bot copies. So they'll take the content that's trending, pull the transcript, put it into from whoever's, profile it is, and then do verbatim copies with the ai avatars. To then create their own version, put it up, leverage the trend, and you can create 10 or 20 of these things pretty quickly.
So that you can just reinforce whatever the message was. But again, it's like you're taking small creators and then just. Stealing their content for your own visibility on the platform to go after the algo. And so that's where, if you are, only, if you're leveraging that and or creating 20 different websites that say the same thing, that point back to the same articles.
All those black hat SEO tactics, my gosh, that's what's being reinforced within the AI algorithms because it's the most reinforced message. From the topic, right? Because that's the thing, right? We've talked about this before, how all the AI results are the average result, right?
Alex Pokorny: It's a summary, right?
Dave Dougherty: So that's where, that's where I get really skeptical about, okay, where's this leading? What should we do? Yeah.
Trust and Content Strategy
Dave Dougherty: And I know this is one of those things where, we talk about a lot about the, what's the so what test on this, right? So if you're a marketer and you're sitting with, what do I create?
Where do I post it? How are you thinking about that right now?
Alex Pokorny: There's a number of different factors. So one of 'em that I mentioned was trust. So there's a point where trust is needed, right? And whenever you can figure that out for your customers you have a huge insight. It might be on the support side, but also on the purchase side.
Basically what's the point of problem where they are desperate for somebody, more knowledgeable on a topic, I wouldn't say smarter, but just more knowledgeable on topic to help them, right? It might be advice, it might be a product, it might be who knows what, but. They're looking for that and there's a lot of people looking for that all the day long about like looking for reviews on the best, whatever, vacuum cleaner, doesn't matter.
They're looking for someone else who has expertise about vacuum cleaners. And they're not gonna be like, oh my gosh, my house is dirty. How do I do this? It's, it's best vacuum cleaner is the search term. So there, there are those points. There's also like, whenever there's a giant problem, you think about this in the B2B world or B2C.
Whatever that is, that's when you have that moment of trust and creating content around that is still worth it. Speaking, being an authority, but also this is the perfect time to influence someone toward a purchase of certain type. That's it. Like that's the point. Support is the same though.
And I think that's one that always gets pushed to the wayside because it's not so tied around profit. But it absolutely is. Customer lifetime value is way more than the initial purchase. You have to go after that loyalty. So again, if there's a major problem with your product, you really don't want someone else to say, oh, you gotta throw it away, or something like that.
Building Trust in Relationships
Alex Pokorny: And instead you say no. Call us. We'll figure it out. Patch that relationship, keep it going. So I guess that's one ma main piece about it is whatever those trust moments are there's a certainty aspect where you have to have.
The Importance of Official Sources
Alex Pokorny: The official source. And if I see some random avatar posting some meme, I'm probably gonna try to dive a little deeper if I'm curious about what it's about, because I don't want that version of it.
I've been finding that with music, like there's so many random covers of every theme song of everything you can think of.
And they're on Amazon Music. They're junk and it's it's not actually what I'm looking for but it's being posted, everywhere. So it's easy to run into, but you know that it's not the right thing.
And if you're trying to find the right source, the right answer, the right information, maybe it's, again, product copy or product, instructions or something like that. You want the real source. You don't just want some random,
Dave Dougherty: and that, for me is one of those things where, you know. It's a cliche phrase for a reason.
The more they change, the more it stays the same.
Challenges with Data and Privacy
Dave Dougherty: Like we, we have convinced ourselves for a long time because of the availability of data. In the web kind of 2.0 world, that we could just leverage the data for our. Our decision making. And now with privacy things, with cookie consent, with, all of these extra things on top of it, you're not getting good data.
You're losing metrics to, the organic metrics to AI and AI modes where you don't have any insights into how it's being interacted with. You can basically assume, right? You get an AI mode answer for SEO. They might read the first paragraph, maybe they click the see more, and then that's it. Zero click event.
So you're going back to the world before all of the analytics and all of the things where, okay. I know that I spent $50,000 on advertising. I know I made a hundred thousand dollars in revenue great. Let's keep going. It's just, it's simple like that. You're gonna have to go through your channels, you're gonna have to,
The Role of PR in SEO
Dave Dougherty: Part of me is biased 'cause I got my start in this side of the industry, but I hope that PR gets its due because it's always been an underappreciated tool in the SEO world. And because it was, it's harder to do. It takes more time and you have to craft a good message and you actually have to get it to people who care to hear that message.
And yeah, it's messy, it's hard, and you can't really attribute it. But I think PR is gonna come back a little bit more, especially if you are looking to get your message across the authoritative sites. If you're a public company, it's gonna be those investor. Webinars, the interviews on CNBC and any other like financial podcasts that you might listen to, going and doing those sort of media tours to get your answer out.
And having that presence right is going to be important because again, when I'm trying to sell something, I don't necessarily care what the first touch point is. If I know that you need seven touchpoint, I just need to make sure that you get seven touch points and then fantastic. Do I have my organization set up to deliver that experience for you to be able to convert?
Easily, whether that's, you see me at a trade show, you hear me on a podcast, you see me on the tv see me on TikTok, like whatever that experience is.
That's gonna be the vast majority of the mass marketing piece, but then. To your point on some other things, once you start building more of that loyalty, how am I interacting with people to keep them coming back?
Do I have things like a podcast? It shouldn't necessarily be generic companies, podcasts, right? Because there are a lot of studies coming out that. People are trusting people a lot more than companies now. So they want those reviews, they want that. But again, you have those AI avatars and that's a problem because the now who's a person,
Alex Pokorny: it gets more and more difficult. Yeah, exactly.
Dave Dougherty: Yeah. So there, there's not really a good answer. You're gonna have to create your own marketing mix. Just like everything, but. What are you good at? What are you willing to put your time into? And go from there.
So how is that, how's that resonating? Because I'm shooting from the hip. This is just what I've been mulling in the back of my head for a while. Yeah.
Alex Pokorny: It
Dave Dougherty: does.
Alex Pokorny: I think there's that problem going back to also talking about, pages linking to each other. Link wheels, that was the whole black ad thing.
Or even that weird kind of red example that I was using.
The Pitfalls of Short-Term Tactics
Alex Pokorny: Either those, but to your added point, also think about how this tactic is gonna play out at scale and if it's gonna last six months. Because a lot of these things look like short term opportunities. And pushing something out there real fast, trying to join the latest trend of whatever, or the latest avatar thing or whatever else.
Think about it for a moment of just, okay, I'm gonna do this. Other people are gonna do this too. What's gonna be the response to it? The response is gonna be basically shut it down and shut it out the internet. Then that's a waste of time then. You were building towards something that was just a.
Flash in the pan, a quick hit and you're not really building something towards the long term. And that really was the difference between blackhead and white hat was really about what's the length that you're trying to look for. Are you talking about a short term thing where you just, you'll turn and burn a domain and a day, which Blackhead has got even under a day, right?
Where they posted something spammy as heck, but it would rank for maybe a couple hours before Google would basically catch it and then ban the domain and. Domain would literally be burnt and you gotta move on to the next one. If you're looking for the long haul, though, you are building up that authority, you're building up that complete kind of repository of content.
You had mentioned about the finance one NerdWallet. There's two, one or one or two others you had mentioned as well. Yeah, I just pulled 'em outta the
Dave Dougherty: air. Like JP Morgan Chase or JP Morgan. That was the other one. Yeah. What like whoever your financial person is, right? Yeah. But JP Morgan.
JP Morgan also don't take advice from us. We're not financial advisors, just
Alex Pokorny: in general. Don't take advice. Just, you know you. You never know. Random avatars online, man, who knows who we are.
Dave Dougherty: I don't know. I don't think they would choose to look like us if that was an avatar. So that's true.
Alex Pokorny: Low budget avatars, that's what's going on here.
Yeah. But yeah, but JP Morgan, yeah. I mean they're definitely in that industry as a, financial product seller service company. NerdWallet isn't, though. NerdWallet is basically creating a budget content has created a reputation around that. Which can be you too. To your point about becoming the authority on a particular topic, NerdWallet became that because they produced a ton of copy about one topic, and they had the authority to basically continually post about it, and they had the presence that was a gigantic digital footprint.
And it was quality over time too.
Understanding Your Audience
Alex Pokorny: And that presence and that placement, I think is another key piece is thinking about. Do you have an audience on TikTok? Then you're not looking at text. You're looking at short form video. Do you have an audience on YouTube? Do you have an audience on LinkedIn?
Those three different platforms have very three different styles. Yeah. You're not gonna take the same video and just post it three times. LinkedIn is gonna be wondering, what is this? This looks super unprofessional. It has nothing to do with. The professional world, right? TikTok is wondering what the heck is this professional video doing on TikTok?
And this doesn't make any sense either. There's all these kind of disconnects too. So platform preference is a piece here of the right content for your audiences, right? Having that footprint. That covers all those different places so that you're seen, speaking of like your seven touch points that you're seen, a number of different times, a number of different ways, and that same name keeps coming back when you're talking about particular, topic,
Speaker 3: right?
Alex Pokorny: That's the new authority, that's the new NerdWallet. NerdWallet didn't, wasn't a big name I would say 10 years ago. Definitely there now. They have a giant footprint though, and nobody else, I think is even close to them in terms of content. There's a few others that are trying, but that's it.
Dave Dougherty: And if you were thinking of doing the black hat way, which we do not endorse for ethical reasons, right? Scrape all the content, put it up, see how you rank. Again, go through that. But the problem with that approach, and this has always been my problem with like programmatic SEO Yeah.
Is that you're not thinking about your experience. Yeah. There's, I was thinking about, I was trying to think of a good analogy for this, the other day and the thing that kept coming to my mind was like hotels and motels. How do you differentiate, right? Like at least in the US right?
You have you have a billion best westerns around.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Dave Dougherty: Do I ever stay at a Best Western as soon as I could afford not to? No, I don't because the experience just wasn't nice. It couldn't, I couldn't guarantee it. So that's where it's the, okay. Do you want to take more of the. If you want to command the price premium, you're going to have the premium bestow bespoke experiences, and that's gonna have to be true in the physical world, and that's gonna have to be true in the digital world.
You can't just. Spray a bunch of content out into the universe hoping that it sticks, and then command a price premium. That's only ever gonna be, the also small margin kind of stuff.
Alex Pokorny: To jump in quick, just to explain to the audience, programmatic, SEO basically was the idea is you come up with every keyword you could possibly think of and you write basically a page for all of them.
Yeah. And you produce massive amounts of copy. Not surprisingly, when AI tools first came out. People were doing this and they were publishing tens of thousands of pages a day.
Dave Dougherty: Yeah.
Alex Pokorny: And some people saw some great success for a period of time, and then all the traffic died off. Not too surprisingly, search engines weren't a big fan of being spam to death, so that didn't work.
Yeah. Yeah. The way I was thinking about programmatic is that the dictionary is an easy book to write, but it's not a very good read.
And that's the thing is you can post every single word you think of. It doesn't make it good, right? And that's the thing is like that next step of what's the point?
Okay, let's say we got a hundred thousand visitors in a single day. But they don't do anything and we didn't make any money. What was the point? You gotta pull that in too, of NerdWallet who, I mean has their points throughout their articles of, the commission aspect of trying to find you a different credit card.
And yes, they'll, give you the 10 points you should think about before finding a new credit card and all the rest of that. But they'll happily. Serve you to their partners first who have given them a fair amount of money for those leads, like it's definitely purpose there.
Dave Dougherty: Yeah. And it's, I don't know. It's a, to me it's a larger business strategy more so than just digital marketing. And we've talked about this with SEO for a long time too, the three of us about how, SEO is always tagged as a. A digital marketing tactic, but really, honestly, if you're going to do SEO you need the entire organization set up a particular way.
You need to be able to have approvals for different things, in a particular way. And if you can't, you won't be able to do this well, and you probably shouldn't use this tactic because you're not gonna be able to execute it properly.
The Future of SEO and AI
Dave Dougherty: And I think it's only gonna get w worse with ai. 'Cause the instinct really is the, okay, great. I don't have to do SEO, I can upload a bunch of keywords, I can have 'em write all the content, and then I'll take another AI as part of the prompt chain to make sure that you know it it makes it readable and not, and then just publish the hell outta everything.
It's no. No. At least that's not how I want to be perceived. That's not how I want to be known for. It's a larger strategy
Alex Pokorny: issue and it's doing things well, but I know to your point of PR and brand, it's think about the complete solution. Think about the touch points, right?
Think about the problem cases. Why does your customer care about this particular thing? How does your customer fit this? What customer is your customer? What do they look like, right? And then who are they not? And are you building copy that's gonna attract the right sort of individuals? You don't just build up random definition pages because random high schoolers are searching for definitions.
Then they land on your site, right? But they're not buying your. Industrial product or whatever happens to be. So it's the wrong audience, right? So there might be volume to a particular keyword, but it doesn't mean there's actually like a point to going after that audience, right? So you're right.
That organizational setup, but also that understanding of brand of this is the kind of copy and content we want on our site because this is the kind of customer that we're going after, which means you have an understanding of who your customer is. You have an understanding of how your product and service fits their needs and problems and how it's gonna help solve them and help them and better their lives somehow in some way.
There's so much more doing business, right aspect. And you're absolutely right. SEO is a piece of this. Absolutely. Sure. It's basically how you. Basically attract attention online without paying for it. That's really, it is. That's SEO. It might be YouTube, it might be your own website. It might be someone else's website where you're posting content.
But it is the same point of, your audience inside and out. You are writing directly to them. You're writing things that they care about, like that's doing business well. Programmatic's easy for. The whole reason also why it doesn't last, right?
Dave Dougherty: Yeah. So I've enjoyed this discussion. I hope it resonates with people. It gets you thinking on certain things. I know this the. The air. This space has been changing massively not just this week, even the first half of this year. Thank you for sticking with us. Thank you for getting through.
To this point, we appreciate it. We like, comment, subscribe, share it with your friends, anybody who you think could benefit from, a conversation like this. Also. I've been plugging away on the Pathways email newsletter, please link, go to that, where you will get exclusive content from us and, use cases that we're experimenting with or random thoughts as we're making sense of what it is to be a marketer in today's business environment.
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